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Sean Morgan Interviews Paul Furber On The End Times
Mon, 5/25 12:58PM • 43:46
people, revelation, corona, judgment, china, elites, ad, book, jesus, temple, pandemic, heaven, soap, called, prophecy, god, theory, culture, daniel, wrote
Sean Morgan, Paul Ferber
Sean Morgan 00:00
I'm Sean Morgan and I'm asking the hard questions about alternative topics like Q anon and Coronavirus. Get the free ebook at Q anon faq.com. I'm here with my friend Paul Ferber. And, Paul, I noticed on Twitter, you, you, you post about different things you post about South Africa, the politics there, the culture there, the racism there. You post about Coronavirus about anonymous sources of information. You know, you really do pay attention to what's going on the United States. You're very well versed in what's going on in the US. And you also actually talk about the Bible and about prophecy and people kind of go back and forth with you on this on Twitter. It's fun to watch. So I was talking to you last time, Paul about the kind of way a lot of people read Revelation is that, really it's not a very pretty ending for humanity on Earth. I mean, yes, in the end, God wins. There's a new earth and all that. But if the elect could be be deceived, they would have been because it's such a sophisticated deception that occurs. There are plagues there are wars. I mean, people are just like, Whoa to anyone who has a child at that time, right. So and So I talked to you about the book, Revelation, and you said that you have a different view on it. And right now, in this whole information war that we're going through, it seems like the good guys, the white hats are actually winning, and we have this real chance for a Renaissance. So what's your perspective on all of this?
Paul Ferber 01:48
Yeah, sure. So my view is called preterist. Well, it's partial preterist. The the full preacher Asara weird times, they say that All biblical prophecy has already been fulfilled which I think is obviously nonsense. Since we don't have a new heaven and new earth yet we haven't had judgment you know, we haven't had judgment but parts of partial preachers and says that revelation is what kicks off with seven letters to seven real churches By the way, you can go and visit them in Turkey right now but not right now because there's no flights there but you used to be able to go and visit the seven churches in in Turkey. I've only been to Istanbul Antalya, which Paul mentions in the book of Acts as being a city on the sea and it's still there and still called Antalya Talia, which is quite fun. But yeah, so first seven first at first there's a there's the seven leftist or seven churches. And then then there's a version john sees something, john c something which is extraordinary, you know, he and you can tell from the language you know, he when he first sees the vision of Christ the guy is holding, the guy is holding seven bowls or seven lamp stands in his right hand and then he puts his right hand on John's shoulder. So what did he do? Did he like juggle juggle the lamp stands and the balls, it's very much an it's a style of literature called apocalyptic where the visions and the sensations are server whelming, that the language often doesn't make sense. However, there are still lots of symbols and coded symbols that would have been perfectly familiar to John's listeners in Revelation. And I believe that for a start, it's cyclical, but the seven seals merely just tell the same story, that God's people will be persecuted, and that they will come up find in the end. And what preachers have or certainly partial preachers says is that the majority of biblical prophecy was fulfilled by 70 ad. So this goes back to Daniel's prophecy. If you want to understand revelation, you should really Immerse yourself in the book of Daniel. Daniel talks about a both a period of 17 weeks, which was meant to be a unified whole of Israel receiving some kind of Revelation and rejecting it. And he also talks about an individual period of three and a half years, where First there's going to be some sort of abomination and the temple some sort of combination of cause desolation. It's going to be a three and a half year period. And then, and then the temples can be destroyed. Now that fits very nicely in that fits very nicely in with what actually happened in 70. AD, is what first you had like halfway through 66 ad there was a mock sacrifice in the temple with zealots. I think they killed a priest or two and they set up a fake blood sacrifice in the temple. Matthew won't qualify as
Sean Morgan 04:57
Paul Ferber 04:58
Well, yeah, exactly. I'm Matthew Matthew writing to his Jewish readers, when he tells the story of when Jesus is warning about the elevate discourse with Jesus warns about all this. He says, When you see the abomination that causes desolation, let the reader understand. In other words, my Jewish readers will know what this means. This is bad news. It means the three and a half years of Tribulation is starting right now. Get out of time to get out of Dodge, Luke, right into his Gentile writers. interpolated he says when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, so because obviously you know an abomination, of course, desolation would have meant a lot to his Gentile readers and didn't well particularly not the office who he wrote to was obviously some kind of Gentile Roman, who was a recipient of both Luke and Acts. So there's this event in the mid 60s warning trouble is coming and as predicted by Daniel and Revelation is Just continues the apocalyptic tradition of coded language. You know, symbols, signs, incredibly, you know, incredibly spectacular things happening in the sky and on the land, whatever. But this is all par for the course. This is all part of the course when it comes to when it comes to literature about judgment. I just want to I'm an idiot and I haven't popped it up yet. I just want to pull up the Bible gateway.
Sean Morgan 06:32
Sure while you do that, yeah.
Paul Ferber 06:36
Sean Morgan 06:37
Jesus was asked about this in the Bible, and he said, This generation will not pass until these things are fulfilled. So right, that makes me think, okay, 70 ad. That's actually about perfect to be one generation.
Paul Ferber 06:57
Yeah. That's right. So So,
Sean Morgan 07:06
but obviously I didn't return in one generation. So that's the part that always confused me.
Paul Ferber 07:11
Well, well, okay, so now the key point to that is the word peruse, yeah. And it actually means arrival or coming. Okay. Pre tourists say that Christ's arrival was actually an ongoing process between the time of his resurrection and the time of 70 ad. So, when again, harking back to Daniel, Jesus explicitly appropriates that little passage about the Son of Man to himself, the high priest asked him, Are you the Son of God? And he says, I am and you will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of head, the Son of Man, cottony What does it say exactly. It's mark is sin mark. You will see the Son of men coming seated at the right hand of the Almighty and coming with the clouds of heaven. So there's like four different claims to definity divinity, in that little phrase. And what Jesus is actually saying, according to the preachers worldview, which I raised is that is going to be a generational period where the Son of Man will be presented to the Ancient of Days. And at the end of it, he will sit down at the right hand of God, and all his prophecies will be vindicated. Now, I find it interesting that when Steven sees a vision of the ribbon, Risen Christ, just before his death, Jesus is standing at the right hand of God. He has not he has not yet sat down. My friend of God. There is a very Jewish and very messianic feeling about all about that the whole thing of the Son of Man whereby the is going to be a generational period where Jesus is going to kind of proceed towards the throne. Right. And, for instance, a poll uses the word Rouzier in a similar way, and you could check you can check it out in you know, you can check it out in the original Greek where it's it can both mean arrival and presence. I mean, you know when he complains to it to the Corinthians and a second later you know that the super apostles always complain that I'm strong while I'm away. But when I am Perugia when I'm with you, I'm weak. So that there's that this feeling of coming into this feeling of coming should should be understood in the elevate discourse as a movement towards the throat. There is an awful lot of detail and in that explanation, which I won't get into, but I tell you what, I'll send you a reference to it because I find it very convincing. What it means yet what it means then is, as you say, all of it discourse is that Jesus is very clear with the language, he says There are people standing here who will still be alive will not taste death, when all these things have taken place, that generational rejection of the Messiah, not not total rejection, because obviously an awful lot of Jews did believe in Jesus. But that that kind of programmatic 30 to 40 years in the wilderness, you know, as predicted by Daniel and then ending with ending with what, for instance, the 10 kings of the Rome that would ultimately destroy and destroy Israel, which they did. I mean, they set Jerusalem and they destroyed the temple. That was God's final judgment on Israel for rejecting the Messiah. And sorry, I've lost my train of thought, saying,
Sean Morgan 10:49
Yeah, well, you were talking about the Olivet Discourse and how all this is talking to the people present they you you will not taste death.
Paul Ferber 10:57
Yeah, right. Sorry. That's sorry. That is right. Yes, they all have a discourse. So you will not taste death before these things take place. Revelation, I believe is a view of those tumultuous times between Jesus's resurrection and the judgment on Israel, future judgment of heaven on earth and everyone is still to come. That John's original readers when john wrote this in it can be dated to the early 60s. I think that's about right. I don't think the the judgment about you know, the dating of revelation from 90 ad is right, that just that means john was john was like riding around on horseback when he was in his 80s. Literally, you know, because he was exiled to pass. I think he wrote it in Patmos, as he says in the text. In Bible he was exiled by Nero to Patmos and he wrote a kind of mid early to mid 60s ad. And it's an encouragement in code to believe As of the time, it just doesn't make any sense to me that like, you know, people reading revelation and also pull right into the Thessalonians talking about a man of lawlessness, then they read this, they feel encouraged. And then suddenly, there's an abomination. They hear about the desecration of the temple in Jerusalem. And then they hear about Jerusalem being surrounded by armies. Then they hear about the Romans strangely not attacking for a couple of months, allowing a whole lot of people to leave. Then they hear about the fall of Jerusalem and the temple was thrown down. They would have looked back at Revelation and said, aha, this is what it's all about. You know, the dragon is Satan. The woman is possibly the, you know, the woman who rides a dragon is possibly the, you know, the Jewish church who's riding on, you know, the backside of the Roman Empire. The Beast they know is Nero because 666 adds up to Nero Caesar, or 616. So manuscripts habit that adds up to Nero Caesar in letter So depending on whether you read Greek or Latin, you get six months six or 666, which is quite a nice bit of corroboration that the original beast was nearer. However, I'm not dogmatic when it comes to creatures. When I look around the world today, and I see play, pestilence, rumors of war, rivers, turning grid, you know, judgment, locusts. I've looked at the language of Revelation, I think. Yeah, I think there's a bit of a reminder here that maybe we should be paying attention to the world around us. So no, I'm not entirely dogmatic that all of revelation was fulfilled by 70. Ad. I think that I think we are meant to the original readers would have understood it to be so but I don't I think we can look at that text and say, yeah, these are sites or patterns that Godwin's and there are definite archetypes in the false state the false prophets. The various judgments like famine, war locusts pestilence, that God is going to unleash. But there's a strong there's a strong sense of exaggeration, to all of judgment is always exaggerated for effect in the Bible by God. I've got a lovely example here in the CTL zekiel chapter 20. reading from verse 45, the word of the Lord came to be Son of Man, set your face towards the south preach against the south and prophesied against the forest land in the nugget, say to the forest to the naked, hear the word of the Lord that says the Lord God Behold, I will Kindle a fire in you and it will devour every green tree in you and every dry tree. The blazing flame will not be quenched and all phases from south to north shall be scorched by it. All flesh you'll see that I the Lord have Kindler It shall not be quenched now. Now that obviously sounds pretty bad, you know, there's a fire is going to like the whole first of the negative from South north. And in fact, this is what happened figure t figure to deed The land was carried off into exile by the Babylonians. So is he killed? tells this parable and you don't do people say to him? He says, Yeah, he complains back to God, he says, Our Lord God, they're just telling me that I'm making parables again. So the people understood that this fire light in the forest from south to north or negative was just a metaphor for coming judgment, not that it was meant to be understood literally. But you can go through the whole of Scripture and find out the judgment is always exaggerated in terms of its presentation, you know, how it is right? That actually it is that you know, real judgments, except in most serious of cases tends to be very turn down. Yeah, because God is merciful right? If you if you read judgment texts with an open mind, you can see that. Yeah, judgment is judgment is always tempered with mercy. Always. Yes,
Sean Morgan 16:12
yes, Sodom and Gomorrah is kind of an example of, you know, that mixture between judgment and mercy. But but that's, that's an example where two cities were utterly destroyed. So God can do that again whenever he wants. Yeah, yeah. So one of the interesting things that you talked about is this idea of actions taking place in the kingdom of heaven, such as standing at the right hand and then sitting at the right hand. And I've been exposed to the prophecy views of the Adventist Church where they talk about how they initially thought in the 1800s, that Christ was, had an imminent return, and they were all wrong and they were like, they tried to figure that out. They just didn't understand because their math was like adding up from the book of Daniel. And they said, Okay, well, since Christ didn't return at the exact date that we thought, well, then maybe there's something going on in the kingdom of heaven. And that was actually the beginning of cleaning of the temple, the heavenly temple, and that there's some kind of ritual going on in the kingdom of heaven that can take hundreds of years, you know, as the high priests Christ in heaven is going through this ritual, and the the all of this actually corresponds to prophesy. Do you have Have you been exposed to this idea?
Paul Ferber 17:40
All right, that is, I must say that's the first I've heard of it. But that's, that's a very interesting view. And that actually makes a lot of sense. I, I would have to look at that and research it properly. I mean, I instantly have some objections to it, but it's not Firstly, different from my view where Jesus is is coming you No, it was in a process of moving somewhere in the kingdom of heaven for that 30 to 40 years between 30 ad and 70 ad. I think it's quite I think it's quite a similar concept, where there's a process happening in heaven and the Adventist uses, there's a process happening in heaven. I think a major differences I believe that it ended in 70 ad. It was a fulfillment of the prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem, whereas the adventures view seems to be no, it's still going on now. So yeah, yeah, that's pretty cool. Actually, I must check that out. I didn't know sorry. Yes,
Sean Morgan 18:34
I think I think another part of that narrative is that Christ is going through through the books, you know, right. You know, of the, some people will call it the Akashic records or something like that, where it's like the history of all all beings actions and and, you know, determining the fate of that soul So, Yeah, that's very interesting to me. I one of the problems with with these things that have to do with the kingdom of heaven is that we can't observe it and research it, we can only just make these conjectures. And then we can pray about it we can hope for for some, some guidance. But I always kind of come back to the basics, which is, you know, repent. Yeah, you know, just get right with God.
Paul Ferber 19:29
Because the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Yeah, right. I mean, yeah.
Sean Morgan 19:32
Yeah. The kingdom of heaven is a hand that was kind of the from the very beginning from the time that john the baptist, it was saying, hey, you might as well just imagine judgments coming today because that's how urgent this this issue is. Right?
Paul Ferber 19:47
Yeah. You mentioned the word soon, as believed in by the by the Adventist soon in the new title, that Greek word soon carries with it. A meaning of Not not time as in we think, you know, tomorrow or we're now it's time, but a meeting of with absolute certainty. So,
Sean Morgan 20:09
yeah, wait, it's inevitable. It's
Paul Ferber 20:11
Yeah, that's right. It's just like the sun is gonna come up tomorrow. But it's kind of a, it's cut. There's this feeling that Jesus is coming soon, yes, you can be sure that he is coming. Not that he's coming soon as he's going to be here next week or within our lifetimes. So there's that element. The other thing is that the New Testament is written to people who are very present oriented in their culture. We as white Westerners are future oriented. So we save for the future, we plan for the future, we make future plans. The audience of the New Testament so you know, the original hearers of the Gospels and then the peoples around the mid to would have received the first latest. We're very present oriented and very group oriented. So their identity was found in a group. They were part of group culture. And they were part of a culture where you mind that your business on the thing you were doing then you had your traditions. And that this is why again, you read all of it. This course Jesus makes it very clear that this, some people are still going to be alive. The key is in the future. When this all happens. That's a very unusual thing to say, to a president oriented culture person where it's there now, the past and some time in the future is God's judgment. So his prophecy is very quite unusual. And I that's another reason this is another reason why I believe that revelation for instance, written to encourage believers, then and there would have been for their immediate circumstances and possibly the next few years, certainly up until the destruction of the temple, it would be inconceivable that they would have been encouraged by some text which is prophesied 2000 years into the future. about some of that maybe even heard about on the on the on the contrary contrary to that, of course, is that Daniel did exactly that. Daniels Yes, Daniels Daniels prescription Daniels predictions in you know 500 BC, talking about the four kingdoms you know the Medes, the Persians, the Greeks and Rome sorry Babylonians means Persians, Greeks and Rome was 600 years before its time and predicted on the nail, including Alexander the Great Antioch 70s. Rome rising, the not the, the the Anointed One being cut off during the time of Rome, the teen kings I mean, it's all it's so accurate and so specific that liberal scholars tend to try and date Daniel much later because they have this disbelief that full prophecy can't happen, which is their, you know, their bias that they bring to the text instead of letting the text speak for itself.
Sean Morgan 22:54
But there's so many different layers of meaning and interpretation in the Bible. And in the book of Revelation,
Paul Ferber 23:02
already I've a cat who wants to get out of office just excuse me a second. No problem. I'm listening.
Sean Morgan 23:09
Yeah. So so for example, one one layer or level of interpretation doesn't discount all the other layers, for example, you could look at the book of Revelation being about the process of death for an individual and they, they're going to die and they're going to be judged. And, you know, in that moment of death, or in that process of death, they're going to have knowledge and go through a process of the afterlife and resurrection and, and a new, a new heaven and a new earth and right. So you know, that, to me, that's much more urgent than being concerned about whether this generation or the next generation is actually going to have the final battle between good and evil. Like we're all going to die and we're all gonna die. No be judged. So
Paul Ferber 24:03
yes, I concentrate on the now exactly as you said. Right.
Sean Morgan 24:09
Well, thank you, Paul, is it's interesting to discuss this with you because it's it's not an easy book to no one will no one will say yeah, the Book of Revelations straightforward easy books.
Paul Ferber 24:23
Yeah, no, it's not. Yeah.
Sean Morgan 24:25
So it's helpful to discuss it and kind of tease out all of these different layers of meaning. So and the fact that you You seem like a sincere person who's on a spiritual, it's not just a political journey of truth you're on, you're still trying to figure out the spiritual level of all this, right?
Paul Ferber 24:46
Yeah, of course. We all I mean, you know, if you, if you if you want to, if you're a person who wants to who's genuinely interested in the truth, then you're going to look at all aspects of it, I think, I think yeah, I think I'm pretty normal. When it comes to that I find and I find that very strongly in the truth seeker community is that people, whatever their views are generally, you know, if you show them information, they'll change their minds. Right? You know, they don't have, they don't have worldviews that are a house of cards, they'll they'll genuinely search for the truth. And they'll look for information. And it doesn't matter where it comes from. But, I mean, I follow an enormous number of people I disagree with, because what they're saying is challenging me all the time. Am I thinking correctly about this? You know, have I got a prejudice here that I don't know about? That putting the blinders on? So I think we all do that to some extent. And you meet all the people you interview in your channel, or very similar people, but we all have our baggage and our backgrounds and our different experiences, but we're all helping each other. Just move that little bit further forward and finding out how the world really works. I think Would you if that's what joins us all in common? I think that would be it right there.
Sean Morgan 26:07
Yes, it's a combination of standing up for something that you, you really do determined to be worthy of attention. And even if it's not something that you wouldn't change your mind on, if given new new information, so there's a level of humility that's required. But at the same time, you can't just stay in positivity and just say, well, this might be true. That might be true. It's up to it could be anyone's guess. And then you're giving a lot of power to the people who are controlling the information narrative.
Paul Ferber 26:38
Yeah, it is. Yeah. You just you've got to be active about it. I mean, it's it is a perfectly normal reaction to say, right, okay. Can I think of the, you know, one of my favorite books on journalism, and I've been a study of being a historian but not historian but it's certainly a study of good journalism from Many, many years is a book written in 2011 called hacker tech how the inside story of phone hacking caught up with rupert murdoch, written by a British journalist Nick Davies working for The Guardian, funnily enough, which is I find lifti, bollocks and hardly ever go there. But the Guardian used to employ real journals and Nick Daly is one of them. And in his book, he headlined one of his chapters, something like, you know, you develop a highly developed imagination, you take your imagination, and you pointed at your problem. How does this piece of evidence fit in? How it does work? What who would talk who would talk to me? How can I put the next piece of the jigsaw puzzle in the doc, how can I and I thought I read this and I thought, that's what I do. That's Yeah, this is what No, this is what any truth seeker does. You say there's
Sean Morgan 27:56
not too much difference between an investigator and a A thriller writer,
Paul Ferber 28:02
we are investigators. So we're using standard. I mean, I use the standard sort of the historical method of interpreting evidence all the time. Like, if, if a theory. I mean, one of the basic tenets of historic method is if a theory explains a wide variety of different facts all at once, then it's quite likely to be true. That's not necessarily true. But if you if you have a theory that I mean let's take for an example something horrendous, like yeah, the elite sacrificing kids to mow lock and traffic that and always have that there's a theory does every single piece of evidence that came out about pizza gate Elsa gate trafficking, Epstein, does it fit into this theory? Is it explained by the theory? Hell yes. You know, you can you can nitpick every single Individual essay, you know, piece of evidence in a theory that and come up with a correct answer. However, if one theory like kind of cuts across the whole, the whole gamut, you know, I'm looking for the right word here the whole sort of corpus of evidence that we have, and says, Yeah, this explains that, that that that then that then it's probably likely to be true. So,
Sean Morgan 29:27
yeah, there's kind of a natural conflict between confirmation bias where you get this idea in your head and you're just looking for evidence that it's true. And then you can always find that because we have this mountain of information that we can pick and choose from. So you should always go through the process of trying to find the opposite of what you believe to be true and see if you can find more or less your evidence. Yes, sure.
Paul Ferber 29:51
If you catch yourself with a piece of evidence comes up that contradicts your theory. Just make sure that you don't just check it out. Right goes yeah that because because no that doesn't really fit for the if it is effect, then you you cannot check it out.
Sean Morgan 30:08
Something he talks about. Yeah, it's kind of related to this when the art comes razor concepts and outcomes razor I guess to simplify would be that the simplest x given like a different different options and explanations of something the simplest kind of most elegant explanation for it is usually the most correct one run. So q point like talked about this in the case of the corona virus being somehow planned to disrupt the Trump election and he talked about, you know, the fact that the timing of it was perfect that the fact that the Articles of Impeachment were held the fact that that's, you know, it actually helps Joe Biden and shelters Joe Biden and whatever weird dementia thing he's going through You know, though all of these and cue mentioned maybe a dozen things and all you just add them all up and they all explain Oh, this is a plan demick and this is meant to prevent, you know, Trump from from winning the election mail in voting and all of this stuff. Yeah. So another another easy way. The truth is used to determine the truth is to follow the money.
Paul Ferber 31:27
That's a very good example. You know, all those facts about Corona check. I have a slightly different conclusion, although it is very similar. Is that yes, the elites were going to plan an epidemic this year based on Corona you can find a rap songs from 2003 Tony Robbins
Paul Ferber 31:49
yeah 20 2020 Coronavirus and the body stacking the fact that Bill Gates you know event to a one was a Coronavirus pay endemics simulation run in October last year Hello. You know, the the Murray ads of elite foreshadowing in popular media and entertainment about how a pandemic is coming. Don't buy the usual suspects. So Fauci is the gates is there, Hollywood is there. So I absolutely agree that the cult we're going to plan a Corona based pandemic this year and they props George Soros is probably the guy who funded it because he gave money last year we had, however, this one caught them by surprise because it got out by accident. unknown to them. China had been building its own by a weapon for decades, because they were tired of you know that the only way they can fight against us hegemony is military hegemony is by biological means. So they, through Torah, all the treaties, they signed on bio weapons, and they've been developing in this since the SARS days in fact SARS is also bioweapons just wasn't a very good one. Wasn't that infectious, but they've refined and added this the Chinese refined this and edited to sauce and then cup of old cups it got out in the truck accident October last year. Guess what the elites are ready for a pandemic
Sean Morgan 33:16
saw and they got their whole narrative. They do all their Bateman.
Paul Ferber 33:21
Yeah, totally. Their narrative is there except books quite a few of them have actually caught it sad, I believe actually believe that a quite a few of them have caught it. So Doris, I think we spoke about this for Boris, Justin Trudeau, his wife, as the Prime Minister of Spain and his wife, the Pope, and heard much from the Pipers and MC Maven public. I think you've seen that video where he disappears into thin air after giving a blessing on his balcony. Yeah, that's obviously a screen and it obviously cuts off just a bit early before he can go. You know, the video they took is you know, they haven't faded them through the curtain property. I thought that was quite funny. So I suspect the pope is dead and he died from Corona. Iran. Iran is a deep ship because of Corona. Really, it's, it's about to collapse entirely as a society. So, yes, yes, the elites actually had Corona planned. And I mean, there's that video I linked on Twitter of a guy who was mistakenly invited to a meeting of senior senior masons in London where they were talking about China catching a cold. And then after that, the, you know, the crackdown in the West because of the pandemic and then the full blown nuclear war and blah, blah. So, yeah, they were planning a pandemic, this is all part of it. But yes, one reality is one. Yeah, this one you know, they're they're not surprised.
Sean Morgan 34:43
That's why, you know, when you talk about geopolitics, people use the term five D chess with strategy because it's not checkers. This is not just China makes a move here and deep stakes are here. You've got white hats and black hats in every single state. So you have people working against each other. have double agents and triple agents. Yeah, you know, you've got pawns and people, you know, faking to be one thing and they're actually another. And so it can get very complicated to try to figure out the truth. But But Q, Q has been this place where I look besides on Twitter, people like you, I'll go to the queue drops. And I'll see what are what are some specific sources of information. And so he talks about the Harvard professor who was arrested and receiving millions of dollars, man, that is shady.
Yeah, there were
Sean Morgan 35:38
there were two people associated with him who were trying to sneak a vials out of the Logan Airport in Boston. And q actually talked about Corona one, Corona two Corona three offline. We thought they were he was talking about satellites. So, I mean, is it really a coincidence that the word Corona was in the queue drops?
Paul Ferber 36:00
Sean Morgan 36:02
so yeah, I mean, the propaganda campaign of China, what they did with all these videos that were released, whether they were purposeful or on purposeful, I don't know, but that's an interesting thing to analyze as well, how China has managed this propaganda campaign. Yeah, try to see what were their intentions. were they trying to make people more scared? Were they trying to make people more calm? Were they trying to cover up things? Were they trying to increase the hysteria?
Paul Ferber 36:36
So So this guy I follow on YouTube is called serpent zayday. On YouTube, surf and ca you would you would say in over your neck of the woods is E Rp. And Tz a siphon guy who lived in China for many years. In fact, I think his wife is Chinese and he speaks Mandarin and has worked a lot funnily enough with the middle Koch community in China with doctors and nurses doing training now lives in London. And he puts out regular videos on how the CCP actually works. And the country as a whole culturally, he entire premise of the Chinese reaction is to not lose face. It is simple as that. They cannot admit that it was a biotech because that would they would lose face for breaking the treaty, they cannot admit that it got out by accident, because that would lose face in terms of their competence. They cannot admit that they were being held by the Russians who provided a lot of the funding and logistics for the spiderweb because they would lose face. They cannot admit that it was an accident and they try to cover it up for four days from October the fourth to the seventh. And then they realized they couldn't and so they immediately shut down the lab from the seventh to the 24th. They cannot admit that because they would lose face. They can don't admit in public that Wu Han was fine until mid January, and then suddenly it fell apart in 10 days, because that's our exponential growth, where some honesty bites you. It's very simplistic like
Sean Morgan 38:14
me does perfectly. My next guest is coming in a moment, but I'll just say that it does explain everything pretty well. And I've, I've lived in China briefly, and that does, does explain their culture perfectly. Another thing that most people don't realize, unless they're on the ground there is that it's not actually a very sophisticated culture, that it's hard for them to coordinate and actually get anything done at all. It is actually just this 1% of elites who are like, top down controlling everything. So this whole idea of saving face, it's actually a big advantage to whoever's working against China in the playbook because All you have to do is give them a deal and say, Okay, well you give us this and we'll let you say face and then they'll take the deal.
Paul Ferber 39:08
Exactly. And also, when you say the controller from the top down, that goes right down to like the municipal level, where your local CCP guy who is in charge off this block of flats, all right, he can see that everyone's die. But he doesn't even get in trouble and lose face. So he doesn't report it to his hierarchy. And that guy also doesn't want to get in trouble that his region is now dying. In other words, there's hundreds of thousands of data in it. So he doesn't report it. This kind of what I'm getting at
Sean Morgan 39:39
is the level. Yeah, in the Western culture, you would just call that incompetence, like the inability to coordinate and get anything done at all. And so what I've what I've tried to explain to people after I've been on the ground there is that China is not a real threat that yes, they have lots of people They have lots of money. They have lots of technology. They have lots of military and lots of soldiers. They have some pretty evil plans. But if they can't get simple things done, then they can't compete in this type of war against the West. So that's what my perspective is right now is that basically the West, the good guys, the white hats, have them by the balls, because they're just trying to save face, you know, and their entire economy is based on subservience to our economy. So I have not developed true independence they have not developed, you know, any of these things that that are required to actually compete. So we can rest easy that's how I'm I'm thinking.
Paul Ferber 40:50
I think I think next time you and I should talk about group culture versus individual culture, and present culture versus future culture and Honor, honor and shame versus guilt. Because I think those are huge invisible divisions in cultures around the world that we don't even realize are there. But they are they I mean, I live in Africa. So I know very well, our group culture has basically scuppered this entire country basically. So, yeah, we should we should chat about cultural differences next time because it does have strong applicability to Corona, the Bible. Yes, it actually we talked about we kind of miss Yeah,
Sean Morgan 41:29
we talked about the complexity. But then actually, when you go down to more of the universals and the principles, it actually helps explain things on a macro level better. You.
Paul Ferber 41:39
You think, Oh, I see it now. Yeah, really? Right. Especially. Yeah. And I can give you some real life examples that you'll say, Oh, I see. Okay. Anyway, I think we're let's agree,
Sean Morgan 41:50
as we are Paul is great. We'll talk about that next time. Thank you, Paul. Have a good one. Awesome.
Paul Ferber 41:57
Look forward to it. Cheers. Cheers.
Sean Morgan 42:00
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